The two kinds of brotherhood

Leucosticte

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#1
There are two kinds of brotherhood -- identity-based and ideology-based.

An identity-based brotherhood is based on who and what you are. An ideology-based brotherhood is based on what you believe and practice.

According to Wikipedia, incels are an ideology-based subculture. Incels themselves have always rejected that notion, saying instead they're bound by their shared characteristic of being incel. The line between volcel and incel can be pretty blurry; the only objective fact we can really look at is how long a man has been celibate for. Didn't it used to be that the standard was set as being something like a year? Anyway, probably everyone here hasn't gotten pussy in the last year.

An identity-based community, you can be cast out of if you don't meet the membership criteria. E.g., if your "dad" does a paternity test and finds out you're not actually his offspring, he might cast you out of the family, and tell you to go live with your real dad.

An ideology-based community, you can be cast out of if you become a heathen. E.g., if your religious order is based on an acceptance of Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior, and then you give your allegiance to Allah and say that Muhammad is the seal of the prophets, you can be thrown out on that basis.

But identity trumps ideology. Even Christians, who say that religious differences will turn family members against one another, don't say that it causes them to stop being family.

The Jews were an ethnoreligious group, meaning they were both a tribe based on genetic heritage, and a religious group, and it could be possible to get cast out from your people for various offenses. It didn't make you less of a Jew, even though the New Testament says some stuff about how the true Jew is a Jew inwardly.

Yeah, philosophical differences, or objections to people's behavior, can cause people to split up. It doesn't negate brotherhood based on characteristics that form part of their identity.

If you get some pussy, then for a period of time, you'll no longer be considered incel, and therefore won't qualify to be considered an incel brother. You might still be blackpilled, but you won't be considered part of the community anymore. Incels.is says that it's actually okay to get pussy and continue hanging out with them, as long as you don't make it known that you're getting pussy. That's kind of like if a father were to say, "I don't know if you're really my son, but until you show me a paternity test saying you're not, I'm going to just assume you're my son and treat you that way."

In reality, regardless of what fictions people may make up in their minds about how they can include you even if you don't meet the criteria, or exclude you even if you do meet the criteria, the truth of whether you meet the criteria is what determines whether you belong to an identity-based group. A cat is not a dog just because we call it a dog, nor does a cat stop being a cat because we choose to call it a dog. Deliberately shielding ourselves from the knowledge of what it is doesn't change what it is either.
 

Robtical

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#2
If you get some pussy, then for a period of time, you'll no longer be considered incel, and therefore won't qualify to be considered an incel brother. You might still be blackpilled, but you won't be considered part of the community anymore. Incels.is says that it's actually okay to get pussy and continue hanging out with them, as long as you don't make it known that you're getting pussy. That's kind of like if a father were to say, "I don't know if you're really my son, but until you show me a paternity test saying you're not, I'm going to just assume you're my son and treat you that way."
This is why I only care if you're blackpilled and not a cuck, since those are things you can control and are based in reality. There are plenty of incel cucks I hate and uncucked, blackpilled normies I like. If they change their stances that's the only time I'll change my opinion about them, not based on what they do or where they're from.
 

adolf512

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#3
Actually there is only one real brotherhood and it's based on biology, trying to aligh yourself with people becuase they are ideologically close usually do not end well, you just end up with an ecochamber.
 

Robtical

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#4
Actually there is only one real brotherhood and it's based on biology, trying to aligh yourself with people becuase they are ideologically close usually do not end well, you just end up with an ecochamber.
Biology is bullshit, I hate most of "my people" and they hate each other as well.
 

Leucosticte

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#5
This is why I only care if you're blackpilled and not a cuck, since those are things you can control and are based in reality. There are plenty of incel cucks I hate and uncucked, blackpilled normies I like.
The thing about incels.is is that they admit that they only accept blackpilled normies conditionally. So if you fail to meet their conditions, then you're gone. You can be cast out and even disowned based on behavior, as though it were a social club or something rather than a true family, where your tie to them is more immutable.

"Conditional" is normally a bad thing. When we think of "conditional love" for instance, it's a love that's less than pure because it's based on convenience, and therefore it ends as soon as being with you is no longer convenient. The female's dual sexual strategy dictates that she'll love her beta as long as he has betabuxx, while she'll love Chad unconditionally unless his face gets burned off in a tragic accident, which is much less likely to happen than it would be that the betabuxx would lose his job or whatever.

Unless I get pussy, I'm still an incel brother, regardless of what they say. Of course, if I were to win a million dollars in the lottery, that could change. But that's as unlikely to happen as it would be that Chad's face would get burned off. Which is another way of saying, I'm pretty unconditionally incel.

Biology is bullshit, I hate most of "my people" and they hate each other as well.
Do you ever hang out socially with a group of black people, and really bond with them, and feel like you belong? I don't.

(That's a different matter than being friends with individual black men and hanging out with them one-on-one.)
 

adolf512

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#6
During my lifetime i have been helped by blood relatives and high iq people while guys that had similar beliefs just stabbed me in the back.

You might think you have a brotherhood becuase you are in a group with similar beliefs but in reality you are more likely to be hurt than helped by these guys.
 

Robtical

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#7
The thing about incels.is is that they admit that they only accept blackpilled normies conditionally. So if you fail to meet their conditions, then you're gone. You can be cast out and even disowned based on behavior, as though it were a social club or something rather than a true family, where your tie to them is more immutable.

"Conditional" is normally a bad thing. When we think of "conditional love" for instance, it's a love that's less than pure because it's based on convenience, and therefore it ends as soon as being with you is no longer convenient. The female's dual sexual strategy dictates that she'll love her beta as long as he has betabuxx, while she'll love Chad unconditionally unless his face gets burned off in a tragic accident, which is much less likely to happen than it would be that the betabuxx would lose his job or whatever.

Unless I get pussy, I'm still an incel brother, regardless of what they say. Of course, if I were to win a million dollars in the lottery, that could change. But that's as unlikely to happen as it would be that Chad's face would get burned off. Which is another way of saying, I'm pretty unconditionally incel.
Other reasons they ban people is for spamming and doing annoying things that make it seem like they want to mess up the forum. I only base my alignment with people on their mindset since that can be changed and reasoned with.

Do you ever hang out socially with a group of black people, and really bond with them, and feel like you belong? I don't.

(That's a different matter than being friends with individual black men and hanging out with them one-on-one.)
I wouldn't mind if he wasn't a cuck and was high iq, same with asian and latino friends.
During my lifetime i have been helped by blood relatives and high iq people while guys that had similar beliefs just stabbed me in the back.

You might think you have a brotherhood becuase you are in a group with similar beliefs but in reality you are more likely to be hurt than helped by these guys.
I could probably take advantage of a good hearted christian more than an uncucked blackpilled man, but the guy I'd like to build a community with is the uncucked blackpiller. It might be smarter to take over a religious group and blackpill them from there, but I'm too lazy and would rather be honest for now.
 

Leucosticte

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#8
Other reasons they ban people is for spamming and doing annoying things that make it seem like they want to mess up the forum. I only base my alignment with people on their mindset since that can be changed and reasoned with.
There's a difference between being cast out and disowned, though.

When they start to get on your case about stuff that you do off of Incels.is, then it starts to feel more like you're being disowned, because they're kicking you off because of who you are, rather than what you did on their site. E.g., if you say on some other site, like Weebs, "I'm not actually incel," then that would be fair game for them to use against you and say, "He's not really an incel, so he's banned."

Or, in my case, they said officially that one reason I was banned was for inciting illegal discussion on incel sites; and unofficially they said a reason for my ban was for talking shit about Incels.is and its mods over on Weebs. So in other words, they were banning me not for what I did on their site, but for what they saw me as (an inciter of illegal discussion and a hater of them). Neither of those things, though, has anything to do with one's identity as an incel; and identity as an incel is at the core of the community's membership requirement.

It's kind of like, if you're a Jew, you're supposed to get circumcised, and if you don't, they might say, "We're not gonna hang out with you till you get your foreskin chopped off." They're excluding you based on your identity of being among the uncircumcised. It doesn't change the fact that you're still a Jew, which means you're still pretty much part of the brotherhood, even if they are ostracizing you.
 
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Robtical

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#9
There's a difference between being cast out and disowned, though.

When they start to get on your case about stuff that you do off of Incels.is, then it starts to feel more like you're being disowned, because they're kicking you off because of who you are, rather than what you did on their site. E.g., if you say on some other site, like Weebs, "I'm not actually incel," then that would be fair game for them to use against you and say, "He's not really an incel, so he's banned."
If I found out someone was being a cuck on another site I'd talk to them about it to see if they're really cucks or not first.
 

adolf512

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#10
There is utility value in spending time with people that have an accurate view of reality, it will allow you to make better desicions.

People of high intelligence tend to understand the world better and will thus provide better value in a social interaction.

The issue is that you are delusional yourself in some areas and rejecting people becuase they do not share your delusions is a recepe for disaster.
 

Leucosticte

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#11
There is utility value in spending time with people that have an accurate view of reality, it will allow you to make better desicions.

People of high intelligence tend to understand the world better and will thus provide better value in a social interaction.

The issue is that you are delusional yourself in some areas and rejecting people becuase they do not share your delusions is a recepy for disaster.
Another issue is when people deliberately make up fictions and then try really hard to act as though those fictions are reality. E.g., "We'll create a fiction that those who have recently gotten pussy but don't talk about it are more incel than those who haven't gotten pussy in a long time but do talk about it."

Creating fictions has a tendency to lead to contradictions.
 

mathmet

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#12
The only time I ever fell for the "brotherhood" group thing, was when I was really young and didn't know any better.

Essentially it wasn't much more than the self-appointed "leaders" of the "brotherhood" group calling the shots, and tricking the "non-leaders" into doing stuff for them with no reciprocation. Basically not much different in practice than how numerous college fraternities/sororities function, or a "cult" or gang.
 

mathmet

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#13
Do you ever hang out socially with a group of black people, and really bond with them, and feel like you belong? I don't.
The only situations where this happened for me (independent of ethnicity, religion, race, etc ...), were various groups I played offline boardgames with. After the boardgames were done for the evening, we went our separate ways.

If there was any bonding, camaraderie, etc ... it was only centered around the particular board (or card) game. It was basically like being in a "speakeasy".
 

adolf512

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#14
The only time I ever fell for the "brotherhood" group thing, was when I was really young and didn't know any better.

Essentially it wasn't much more than the self-appointed "leaders" of the "brotherhood" group calling the shots, and tricking the "non-leaders" into doing stuff for them with no reciprocation. Basically not much different in practice than how numerous college fraternities/sororities function, or a "cult" or gang.
This is usually how it works, one or a few guys at the top calling the shot and benefiting from it while it's very destructive for everyone else.

If you are not genetically related there cannot be any brotherhood and you will need to be very careful. Me being involved in different cults has cost me a total of at least 1000$ by now, probably a lot more due to costs i didn't see (such as ruining future career and opportunity costs).
 

Leucosticte

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#15
This is usually how it works, one or a few guys at the top calling the shot and benefiting from it while it's very destructive for everyone else.

If you are not genetically related there cannot be any brotherhood and you will need to be very careful. Me being involved in different cults has cost me a total of at least 1000$ by now, probably a lot more due to costs i didn't see (such as ruining future career and opportunity costs).
I've spent way more than that on cults, and also invested my first five years out of college in them, right before I went to prison.

(That used to be how I told my life story: I spent my elementary, middle, and high school years getting bullied and/or ostracized; then I went to college and felt lonely because I didn't fit in there either; and then I went into a religious cult where we weren't allowed to get pussy; and then I went to prison.)
 

mathmet

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#16
I was too much of a skeptic/thinker, to be a "good" cult member.

I would have been thrown out quite quickly for asking too many hard questions.
 

adolf512

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#17
I've spent way more than that on cults, and also invested my first five years out of college in them, right before I went to prison.

(That used to be how I told my life story: I spent my elementary, middle, and high school years getting bullied and/or ostracized; then I went to college and felt lonely because I didn't fit in there either; and then I went into a religious cult where we weren't allowed to get pussy; and then I went to prison.)
I was able to cut my losses early evading several potential disasters.

So my direct financial losses is still less than what i made from crypto, still feel like a loser though.

You really fucked up the earlier parts of your life and you never really recovered from it.
 

mathmet

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#18
If you are not genetically related there cannot be any brotherhood
I encountered the "family" thing when I was really young too.

After the previous "brotherhood" disaster thing I encountered, I didn't trust the "family" thing at all either. (ie. My relatives are just as untrustworthy as anybody else).
 

adolf512

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#19
I was too much of a skeptic/thinker, to be a "good" cult member.

I would have been thrown out quite quickly for asking too many hard questions.
I was never a good cult-member either.

When i think back i realize there was many cases where i was involved in shit but managed to avoid monetary loss due to being careful. Trading cryptos probably saved me in many ways since it forced me to become more rational and took stepts to avoid falling into echo chambers.

I had a habit or brainwashing myself by consuming content verifying my existing belifs and avoiding content that would conflict what i believed in.

It was also about seeking exitement, this is why i listened to the most extreme nazis such as linder and bill rhyes.
I encountered the "family" thing when I was really young too.

After the previous "brotherhood" disaster thing I encountered, I didn't trust the "family" thing at all either. (ie. My relatives are just as untrustworthy as anybody else).
You can get screwed over by blood relatives too but it's less likely to happen than if you trust some friend you are not genetically related to.
 

mathmet

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#20
You can get screwed over by blood relatives too but it's less likely to happen than if you trust some friend you are not genetically related to.
This is the primary reason why I don't really attend family gatherings.

I only go when I really have to, where I don't have to interact much with most of my relatives. (Such as funerals). Be seen, but not heard.
 
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